Many Not On-Board Slow 3C Train to the Past

Many Not On-Board Slow 3C Train to the Past

Comments on Passenger Rail Ohio Rail Chiefs Would Rather You Not See

by John Michael Spinelli

September 1, 2009

COLUMBUS, OHIO: With visions of high-speed sugar plum fairies dancing in their heads, fueled by the $8 billion in high-speed rail funds designed to launch America's version of bullet train systems that run in Europe and Asia, Ohio communities, large and small, are being asked to support the resurgence of passenger rail service while also being told their community will not be a stop on a train that will travel slow and take nearly seven hours to traverse the state diagonally from Cincinnati to Cleveland with stops in Dayton and Columbus in between.

Even though a small community like Galion is being asked to jump on board the slow train to the past even though it has been told it will not be a stop of the 3C corridor train, as the Ohio Department of (Existing) Transportation calls the 250-mile line it needs $400 million to launch in 2011 at the earliest, the comments left at the state's Web site for the 3C are far from positive, as who take the time to scroll through some of the unflattering comments included in this column.

Even thought Ohio's mainstream media has performed as an adjunct public relations department for ODOET because it refuses to ask even simple, challenging questions to state rail bosses, who seem single-minded on pursuing a plan that conservatively is pegged to cost $1.53 billion, and that's just for initial capital costs, which doesn't include an on-going public subsidy to cover operating, maintenance and borrowing costs. Spinelli on Assignment reviewed upwards of 2,000 comments to glean those comments ODOET will never show you, because they ask critical questions that state rail bosses cannot answer yet. And even if they could, those answers would poke huge holes in the assumptions and projections being cast far and wide to accent the positive and eliminate the negatives surround this rail project.

There were hundreds of comments on the 3C Web site that ranged from being curious to being adamantly against the idea. The following represent a small portion of this category of comments. By reading through them, though, Ohioans will better understand that they need to learn more than they are being told today about the cost of passenger rail and what the source of Ohio's huge share of these costs will come from.

So, without further delay, here's an SOA sampling of the "3C is not Me":

Ohio is one of the largest states in the country, with three major urban centers, over 20 of the world's largest companies, and proximity to Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Washington and so forth. Economic development and opportunity would be tremendously enhanced by high-speed rail, not low-speed rail. Ohio--and the rest of the country--must not plan for the short-term, but the long-term, and develop extremely high-speed rail that does more than transport people in Columbus to Cleveland at 79 mph. Look at the success that Japan, China and France have had in developing rail that is actually high-speed. Building slow rail will be inherently unpopular because of time. Time trumps all; the ability to do work on a train will be nice, to be sure. But people still want to get to destinations faster, for cheap, and with maximum convenience. If we're going to do this--and we must--let's do it right. Let's develop high-speed rail. Japan's got trains that go over 300 mph. And we're going to dabble in trains that go 79? Let's leap ahead, not crawl forward.

That ODOT should stick to highway maintenance in this time of economic hardships. This is hardly the time to be expanding a program which stage gas taxes cannot legally be spent on to support once implemented. Let this money go to programs already established.

This should not be a federal or state undertaking. If the market demanded it, we would already have it. Look at the ridership of COTA in Columbus! It is used heavily one time a year (Red White and Boom) and sporadically system-wide the rest of the year (OSU Football games organized by OSU) and few other events. I would be disappointed to see tax dollars go towards this plan.

This model will not work. During the quick start phase you will not see a bonanza of ridership because a MAJORITY of the state will elect to use the quicker, less expensive method - the automobile. Since you won't see this huge influx of riders that you are predicting, you won't be able to justify the demand for high speed as your plan is laid out. Let's see - Would I want to travel Columbus-Cleveland to watch the Indians with my family of 3? Yes. Would I want to sit on a train for 3.5 hrs instead of 2.5? Maybe once, and never again. Would I want to pay $60 train fare (pulling that number out of the sky, but I bet it's on the low end) vs. $35 to gas up my car? No.

That available times and stops do not take longer than what it would normally take to travel by car. The more stops the more likely the trip will take longer. Time and cost efficency will be key.

Waste of time and money. Rail service has never been the answer to efficient travel. It failed years ago. Why on earth would it be revived except to get federal stimulus money. No one even thought about this until monies became available and everyone wanted their "fair" share.

That 110 mph is embarrassing. We can afford a few less F22s and get at least 200mph trains

Stop wasting our money! Amtrack is not able to operate without tax payer dollars, and it seems like more every year. Why support a project that will not be self-sufficient and require more state dollars once the federal stimulus money runs out?

Please don't just fund a study, actually do something. Get us high speed rail service between Cleveland Columbus and Cinci. I studied in europe, and I saw what wonders a good train service does. If the idea is a piecemeal approach, it's doomed to failure. INVEST in high speed, people will take it, and make sure it is REASONABLY priced! If i can get from cleveland to columbus for 50 bucks, and faster than in a car, I AM SOLD! No one takes regular trains, and no one will. They are slow, uncomfortable, and associated with people with low socio ecobomic backrgonds. Normal middle class people don't like that. A high speed train would give everything we need!

I appreciate what you are trying to do but a state like Ohio that has excellent transportation systems already in place and relatively low traffic, DOES NOT NEED high speed trains. Lets use this money elsewhere.

It is mind boggling that, residing in the largest industrialized economy of the world, I am utterly unable to employ a mode of travel that is ubiquitous throughout all other nations.

It's a waste of tax dollars.

Seems to me that the federal government has only mucked up the rail systems it already funds and controls. I don't see a rail system in Ohio being any better - and with far less population desity to make it financially worthwhile.

I think if it were profitable, a business would have already created it.

Stop wasting taxpayer money. If this is a worthwhile service, allow private investors to get involved and run it profitably. Taxpayers are already subsidizing Amtrak, and should not be forced to subsidize Ohiotrak.

This a black hole for government waste!

I'm just not sure it's convenient enough to attract ridership

Please save your money. This is the 2000's not the 1800's. Americans do not want to take trains, aside from the occassional novelty, outside of the East Coast. This proposal will cost taxpayers hundreds of millions, and Ohio cannot afford to subsidize this program, it can barely pay its own bills. Please spend the money on the East Coast, where it may make sense.

The point I would like to get across is that funding must be generous so that the trains can begin operation quickly and at a high quality of service. Getting adequate funding will be crucial in making trains competitive with the personal automobile.

Each of the "benefits" applies to the sales pitch for intercity bus service and that has been a disaster in every Ohio city. The only way people use bus or the proposed train service would be if gas were incredibly expensive. That's why train service works in other countries(!) its NOT because of the supposed benefits. This is an unnecessary project with limited potential. A classic waste of money.

If it won't be self-supporting, it shouldn't be built.

Quite honestly, I find it very hard to believe that this is a feasible project. Don't we have more worthwhile projects on which to spend our money? It seems apparent that these trains will never run at capacity. Hopping in your car will be more convenient, faster and, above all, cheaper. The general public is opposed to this idea and the state should quit trying to shove it down our throats.

The proposed option is significantly slower than car travel, and each of the cities on the corridor has limited intra-city transportation options. The reason the NE Corridor is successful is that the major cities along the route (Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, DC) all have mass-transit available once you arrive at the destination. None of the 3C corridor cities have significant infrastructure in place, indicating that the venture would be unsuccessful.

Once the passengers get off the trains how are they then going to get to their final destination? Seems to me the local infrastructure needs to be in place first. Taking a cab is expensive and the COTA bus is not user friendly. I would rather see a subway system first. And many communities do not even hade sidewalks for people to walk from a station to their home.

As cincinnati is experiencing budget cuts in essential areas such as police and fire services, I would rather see funds used in support of keeping those jobs rather than used for light rail which would offer limited appeal/use. With police cuts, the crime and violence will increase and no one will be traveling to cincinnati anyhow.

We have crumbling cities, people hungry and on the streets and no jobs. If this is your president's idea of stimulus, then forget it. These jobs last only a short time till constuction and just a few people to maintain and operate. We do not need more criminals having an easy way into Columbus to attack our citizens, we have enough crime without importing it. Besides what would they come to Columbus for? To see the grassy park left where the only shopping at City Center used to be in downtown? Everything closes at 6pm, nothing worth seeing here. Could have used the old City Center instead of building a new building to house city offices on High St. What a waste of money then paying another half million to tearr down City Center when there are many other buildings you could use sitting empty down town in crime-ville. Use your heads not your political asparations and gains to lead. What a mistake. Like raising income tax 1/2 percent, you are driving people out of the area with this. How you going to collect taxes if people are leaving...rea with this. How you going to collect taxes if people are leaving...

It was stupid to take out rails to begin with we cannot afford this now how will it get paid for you politiciansn are so damn nuts

I am for this but am not sure why??? IT sounds good BUT can it be self-sustaining? I don't think so. It has to be fast, convenient, and clean--sorry--don't let this turn into a Greyhound bus program. Ohio needs jobs and this would help, but will people in rural communities drive an hour to get a train for a trip they could have driven in two hours (Hillsboro to Columbus via train with a Cincy connection). If this only caters to metro inhabitants it will not work. And great sections of the state are going to be truly left out. Like I say, I support it but am not sure why.

One word - Amtrak. It will be cost prohibitive to build and require subsidies forever because it will not generate enough ridership to support itself.

Toledo should be included.

You are 30 years behind

It has no probability of success

Either build a modern, efficient, and very fast train system or don't build it at all. If people are given an inexpensive and faster alternative to driving their car, you better believe they will take advantage of it.

I do not think adding to the federal deficit by soliciting stimulus funds should be the way to pay for the rail system. Although I think it is important I think that our infastructure that is already in place should be taken care of first. Right now we need to cut back in funding and I do not support stimulus money which in turn will add to the taxes that I am already paying!

It’s pointless if all this gets you is "getting to my destination as fast as I would in a car" as question 10h says. The only way this venture can be in any form viable is if it is much, much faster than driving. High speed rail or nothing. Does anyone actually commute all the way across Ohio on a daily basis? I doubt it. But if this allows someone to live in Cleveland and work in Columbus (without a very difficult commute) then this can be a great resource for the state. Please only consider putting stations in the downtowns of our great cities. Our urban downtowns have seen a huge amount of public and private investment for centuries and it is a crime when private and public interests alike turn their backs on them. They are great places; they are easy to get to; they are the core hubs of business in our state; and they are the geographical centers of our major metropolitan areas. Highly improved public transit between them would provide an immense benefit to their economies at a time when it is needed most. Finally, while the temporary construction jobs to build this massive infrastructure project are important, it is the long term economic growth, private development, private industry job creation and retention that are the key factors to this issue. If the Federal government is handing out free money to fund projects like this, than we should build it, but build it the right way. Build it in a way that shows Ohio is an intelligent and progressively growing state that knows how to efficiently spend government stimulus grants to maximize potential growth in our private sectors. Make Ohio a place that people want to invest in again.

Ohio has little viable rail service. We don't take Amtrack from Cincinnati to Chicago, because the rails are poor and the train is side lined whenever a non-passenger train needs to pass. This makes the trip incredibly long! Ohio needs ways to rely more on other forms of transportation besides the car.

It is a huge waste of MY tax money!!! Can't you guys come up with something a little better than this idea???????????????????????
It will not pay its' own way and will have to be subsidized by tax payers who wont use iit.

Quick start won't do much - it would be faster to go by car

I think it is a failure waiting to happen. Unless cities have clean, safe, efficient and easy to use local public transportation, connecting the Three-Cs won't make a difference. People will still chose to drive for about the same time, the same money, but with more flexibility when they arrive.

Rail service will divert state funds, which are shrinking, away from more important issues now for a long-shot route like the 3C that few will ride but all will be expected to pay for to build it and subsidize it over time. The same agencies and some of the same people who looked on as passenger rail service vanished are now asking the public to let them bring it back, when they have done nothing for decades but plan and study with nothing to show for it.

John Michael Spinelli is a Certified Economic Development Financing Professional, business and travel writer and former credentialed Ohio Statehouse political reporter. He is registered to lobby in Ohio and is the Director of Ohio Operations for Tubular Rail Inc. Spinelli on Assignment is syndicated by Newstex.com and is available for subscription (99 cents/month) to Kindle owners. His tweets on Twitter can be followed @OhioNewsBureau. To send a news tip or to make a comment, email him at: ohionewsbureau@gmail.com